| #1 Dino Din (port-cvx1-119.access.one.net)[17669] |
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| first comment wohoo! |
| #2 ko[B]ong (user-33qthhf.dialup.mindspring.com)[17670] |
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| Life is not worth living anymore, i waited for hours to get 1st comment. |
| #3 Excalibur_Z (39-pool1.ras12.casnc.agisdial.net)[17671] |
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| What do you do, Dino, just hang around waiting for new reports? =P Hope you enjoy the br, and I hope it seemed as good a match as it really was. McNasty really pulled some nice stunts. Btw this report was added just 40 seconds ago =) |
| #4 WilliamWC3 (huru27.wuh.wustl.edu)[17672] |
|
Good work!!
I liked the report. The pictures took 30 seconds to load even on my t3 so you can expect complaints. Also some how you managed to get the whole report to load on the right side of my browser window. Ahh the wonders of html. Other than that though great report. |
| #5 Sp|nE (dialup10-60-pri.voicenet.com)[17673] |
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| Go newbie go ^^ |
| #6 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17675] |
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| Die Doom, Die. |
| #7 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17676] |
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| Now I just need a BR involving me =]. |
| #8 Persian-POW (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17677] |
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| Crap Excal is coming |
| #9 Excalibur_Z (39-pool1.ras12.casnc.agisdial.net)[17678] |
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| Damn you persian, why must you spam my comments section? Hehe, I'll work on your br next... if I feel like it =) |
| #10 1badassmarine (207.212.135.71)[17679] |
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Awesome game, awesome B.R. I need some of those micro skillz damnit!!! It ain't fair!!!
1badassmarine |
| #11 The ZerglingPlague aka bgh defender (spider-pa012.proxy.aol.com)[17680] |
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jeez man, i cant believe i was matched up with this guy as my first fight! i dont think i even had a chance, even though i defended against that first tank push... damn good mico newbie
good br excal |
| #12 Persian (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17681] |
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| Good mico owns you all. I hope I didn't sour Excal to much to the idea of making me famous. |
| #13 Dino Din (port-cvx1-119.access.one.net)[17682] |
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| mwhahahahha 11 comments and only one of them FIRST! And that coveted prize belongs to me, great-one-who-hardly-gets-first-comment-but-did-when-everyone-else-wanted to! Kneel before me, for you shall call me this whenever, you call me... i guess or when you talk about me behind my back... and |
| #14 NewbieMcNasty (rn80360.u.resnet.pitt.edu)[17697] |
|
It was a very good game.
It may have seemed like I stopped the reaver drops easily, but actually each one killed an average of 5 scvs.
Things to improve on:
Early micro - even though my micro got good reviews, in reality I should have been able to stop the early zealots. There is no excuse for having to defend with scvs.
Second bunker - the bunker at choke was EXTREMELY effective. The four marines inside probably killed 6-8 dragoons total. However, I needed one at my CC, to stop the reaver drops. Now, normally I wouldn't build a bunker at all, but sometimes we have to do unorthodox maneuvers to get out of holes.
-----------
Tank / M&M is the best combo vs Toss. You see, the dragoons deal a full 20 to tanks, but marines only take 10 damage and are healed by medics. So, the rines are really only there for a decoy.
Also, you might be wondering why I had a dropship in the last pic. I was planning a new tactic I have been using, tank pushing OVER a ledge. You don't always have to go up the ramp.
DinoDin played a good game, but probably should have gotten Templars, so I couldn't make a sudden straightforward attack. Also, dts would help in combo with his drops.
|
| #15 Dino Din (port-cvx1-119.access.one.net)[17698] |
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| dude I didn't play its the other DD, DoomDragon |
| #16 NewbieMcNasty (rn80360.u.resnet.pitt.edu)[17700] |
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ack, sorry.
Although, if my memory is correct, we may have a report too.
:)
|
| #17 Dino Din (port-cvx1-119.access.one.net)[17706] |
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do you mean those two games, or the game we have coming up?
I haven't reached semis yet... |
| #18 Fractal_Wave (24.64.215.34.bc.wave.home.com)[17710] |
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Great report of a great game. TERRAN POWER.
All the best,
Fractal_Wave |
| #19 QGOLDQ (p220.oak3.2xtreme.net)[17714] |
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| good job on the br! too bad MeSuks chickened out before i could kick his @$$..otherwise you would see a br of my victory! good job mcnasty against those damn reaver drops. |
#20  (fjwilson.reshall.uc[17716] |
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| Bah, I would have just early-expanded with cannons first, and squashed NewbieMcNasty with carriers =). Marine dance this! |
#21  (buri.campus.vt.edu)[17722] |
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I never could get the report to load without crashing Netscape, so I won't rate it. I did read the report without pics via the source code...nice work! There was a lot of superfluous HTML that didn't look very necessary to the report. Sans pics, I'd say this would be an 8 to 9.
Keep up the good work!
~CB~ |
| #22 Persian (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17729] |
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| Wow, this report was cool. I just finished reading the whole thing and decided that doom deserved to die. |
| #23 Persian (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17730] |
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| He might have done better if he went for that strat I saw Mark talking about in one of Fractal's quotes. Ahh, the 8 probe drop, that's it. |
| #24 Persian (proxy2-external.rdc1.az.home.com)[17731] |
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| I promised Excal I'd post 5 more comments, but I'm getting tired. =[ |
| #25 JimtheCar (cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com)[17734] |
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I commented, you can stop sending me death threats now.
oh yeah...the report...was nice =) |
| #26 soulsplitter' (spider-tp071.proxy.aol.com)[17735] |
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| I told excal id comment, godd br. Persian, you used that same pic in shockwaves forum, you pic whore. |
| #27 <font face="QUAKE">Excalibur_Z</font> (153-pool1.ras12.casnc.agisdial.net)[17736] |
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| Jim, you must comment more... the death threats will never end... mwahahaha! I'm greedy with comments, so sue me =P |
| #28 <font face="QUAKE">EXCALIBUR_Z/RECOIL -- QUAKE GOD</font> (153-pool1.ras12.casnc[17737] |
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Hehe actually I prefer to be called RECOIL when it comes to Quake, but that's ok..
Jim, you must comment more... the death threats will never end... mwahahaha! I'm greedy with comments, so sue me =P |
| #29 Seriva (sanduser1059.bossig.com)[17738] |
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Sweet BR =] NewbieMcNasty totally rocked, though I was kind of dissapointed by how long it took DoomDragon to expand.
Bah it shouldn't have died so fast! |
| #30 Rupeo (1Cust221.tnt7.sfo3.da.uu.net)[17745] |
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| Really good BR though I would have liked to see a more detailed description of McNasties micro. Also, why didnt he do a depot-Rax walloff of his choke to prevent the zeal rush? |
| #31 <img "/images2/n_fls.gif">[17747] |
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| Nice BR... it's just strange that all of a sudden NM had to fend of so many things and lost all his units, and suddenly he showed up with 8 tanks and like 12 m&m knocking at doom's main... just wierd. |
| #32 GameOverZ (198.234.208.205)[17762] |
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I was delighted for once to see a Terran win 1v1 vs a Toss.
However this doesn't really change my opinions on imbalance.
Thank God the tech never advanced past reavers.
I think this proves that it takes a Terran w/ insane micro to beat a Protoss, as it is obvious that skills alone saved Mcnasty, not the units themselves.
If I have one negative thought about this, it's that a dropship is never necessary for recon, especialy for tanks from the ground. An ebay would've done just dandy.
I hope I get to obs the semifinals and the finals, because I get the feeling the competition can only heat up as the players advance. GG Doom, Nasty, Z.
|
| #33 T_Mac (ts7-38t-42.idirect.com)[17766] |
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| Ack, no storm? No dts? TEMPLAR ARE IMBALANCED REMEMBER? |
| #34 -=~KaDaBrA~=- (a200-18.tusc.kent.edu)[17767] |
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Step back in awe Excal, for the mighty Kadabra has posted his godly comment on your br....
Nice job.
Im surprised it took newbie so long to kill Doom. I thought it would be a 5 minute game :P
Doom seems to have improved his toss game. I think he was robbed of a win though. I remember hearing him bitch one day, "how do you stop a heavy metal terran and tank push?", wether or not he was mad because of this game I don't know, but heres 1 possible way he could have stopped it here. He could have easily beaten that terran tank push if he had units at his natural instead of just his ramp. Units at both other bridges and his ramp could do a 3 pronged attack at an incomming tank push. Hitting a tank push from numerous sides is probably the most effect way you can stop it without gayweb.
You did a good job on this report excal. Keep em comming. |
| #35 shockwave (exchange1.sensable.com)[17780] |
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| Great BR, nice intense game. I'm usually in the habit of front-gating as TvP, are there any drawbacks to this? That would have taken care of the early zealot attacks. BTW: Reavers are cool, but they're also risky IMO. If you can score a good early crippling attack, then you can follow up with some other tech to kill him. But once he starts showing tanks, you're almost forced to pursue another tech since reavers do so poorly against tank pushes. I've never had luck stopping a tank push with dragoons/reavers. |
| #36 <img "/images2/n_fls.gif">[17781] |
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Shock,
Try zeal/reaver/temp. Works very nicely. I usually go by 12 zeal/1 reaver/2 temps ratio. zeals from the front, followed by temps, and drop reaver/temp/zeal in one shutle (or two if you got twice of the ammount) from the back to take care of rines behind tanks.
I found it almost impossible to defeat a tank push with equavilent resource from the ground as protoss in one direction.
Unless you got gay-web, dun go goons against tank pushes. =] |
| #37 NewbieMcNasty (hail.library.pitt.edu)[17796] |
|
I might actually change my build order around a little, to get faster M&Ms. For example, I may start an Academy BEFORE second factory next time.
M&Ms with tanks own dragoons by so much its not even funny. You saw the screen shot, the dragoons died incredibly easily. I didn't even really "tank push", I simply attacked, the scvs there really didn't do much.
The problem with plain heavy metal is that most Protoss players are prepared for it. They get away with building nothing but dragoons for a relatively long period of time. Vultures are great units, but I only build them now for recon and drop defense. The actual attack benefits are going downhill, because everyone is adjusting to heavy metal by teching straight to dragoons and skipping the zealot stage. My new build order will be:
barracks
factory
academy
factory
barracks
This way, if my opponent is using heavy dragoons I own with M&Ms tanks, and if they go for zealots, I build a third factory, and own with vultures / mines. THEN, if they get speed (mines are no longer effective) I can pump out firebats. If they get Temps, I get SVs and emp. Also, earlier academy gives me earlier comsat.
|
| #38 GameOverZ (proxy.siscom.net)[17801] |
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Mcnasty, it never hurts to do a standard 2 rax build against
gooning Protoss. Getting a factory before the 2nd rax is something too risky for me and many other people. By gunning for a 2nd factory, you are problably going to invest into vultures, because at such an early stage tanks cost way too much.
And vults suck vs goons. So i suggest getting the standard 2 rax. Just a thought. |
| #39 shockwave (exchange1.sensable.com)[17813] |
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PZ: Okey doke, I will try the temp/reaver thing. The problem is that if I invest the tech in reavers, I'm often scrambling just to get a few temps out by the time the tank push starts hitting me. So I guess I'd usually rather have spent the reaver tech money instead on temps or leg upgrades. I'll try this, though, and let ya guys know my results when I get down to it. Yes, zealots followed by reaver/temps is always a great idea, a couple of good psi storms is sometimes all you need.
GameOver: 2rax is fine, but getting vultures out earlier usually gives you a strategic advantage because it increases your likelihood of containing him w/mines & tanks at his choke. If you use a front-gate strategy of sealing off your ramp with rax/depot, then you don't need to worry about early zealot attacks because they can't get into your base. Then it just becomes a tech race to see who contains whom first: either him with his dragoons, or you with your mine/tanks.
|
| #40 <font face="Trebuchet MS">Excalibur_Z</font> (152-pool1.ras12.casnc.agisdial.net[17814] |
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Thanks for your input on the report, guys! I'm even more tempted to start my Persian/Taktiks report ahead of schedule because of the nice turnout of comments.
Yes, I agree that academy before factory is nice, but it might leave you susceptible to Reavs, which is usually quick on the Toss tech tree. If you have godly micro like McNasty, I suggest strict infantry -- sending one marine at a time to deal with Scarab damage, and small task forces (1/4 control group) to avoid storm. As for DTs, I'm not too sure, because ComSat has limited use against them. Hopefully by then you'd have a second CC, even though you didn't expand until late. The only thing you'd have to worry about is Carriers, and that's not much of a problem. Infantry rock!! |
| #41 ']['amaraw (203.172.21.187)[17821] |
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Damn marine dancing, how do u execute this easily w/o sacrificing economy? Either you're really fast or u have other ways around it.
2 marines vs 1 zeal, thats about 13+ shots for each marine. Damn i click both marines to shoot at the zeal, move my attacked marine to a direction wherein the zealot will be in the middle of both my marines (one in front and behind). All the while pumping units, making SCVs and making necessary structures. If these things were done in the fastest setting, you're godly at micro NewbieMcNasty.
Damn when could i execute this thing proficiently and w/o losing focus of the game.
Why did toss expansion died horribly? Where were doom's army at this time, i thought he had a huge advantage in economy? Sorry pics won't load here in the office - connection is too slow.
Good game to both of u. |
| #42 -=~KaDaBrA~=- (dover-216-196-38-85.raex.com)[17855] |
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| From what i saw, newbie manageds to expand to top right without doom seeing and had it running just when doom got his going good. Thats when newbie was able to strike. He had about 6 tanks and 12 to 24 marines with scv and medic support. All dooms forces were up his ramp in his main. He had about 12 or more goons but they got slaughtered to the tanks and marines. Wether or not there was any other fighting I dont know. Thats all that was written about and in the pics. |
| #43 NewbieMcNasty (fang.library.pitt.edu)[17985] |
|
Again, at first my micro wasn't that good. If I had good micro, I wouldn't have to defend against dragoons with scvs. I took the risk of not building a bunker, and it almost killed me.
The main reason that doom's expansion fell so fast was that it was relatively undefended. Also, he thought he could hold off the push with his dragoons, while he reaver dropped.
My own expansion never really payed for itself, but I DID get gas, which helped me pay for tanks.
The main lesson I think we learned was the power of a choke point bunker, and how M&M / tank completely demolishes dragoons. Just look at the picks, as soon as the dragoons walked down the choke they died. |
| #44 Kaz[52402] |
| hades.lweb.net |
The key to microing while keeping non stop troops + peons is Control grouping your CC / rax / factory /.
Then just hit 1 S every so often and you're fine. |
| #45 Kaz[52403] |
| hades.lweb.net |
| BTW, this report is Bull *wink* |
| #46 <img "/images2/n_fls.gif">[102433] |
| proxy2.senet.com.au |
| Test |
#47  [102434] |
| proxy6.senet.com.au |
| Test |
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