| #1 JPaikman[29661] |
| huru59.wuh.wustl.edu |
First Comment!
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#2  [29674] |
| fjwilson.reshall.ucsd.edu |
| Jeez, going hydra versus Zerg... If I get behind on tech, I just throw down a few spore colonies and go to mutas anyway. |
| #3 commentary[29685] |
| hillmac2.cc.purdue.edu |
Actually, I usually go hydras/lurkers on small maps. If you micro carefully, you can use the hydras to defend your lurkers against mutas, and the lurkers to defend your hydras against lings. The nice thing about hydras/lurkers is that you can get them out fast, and on a small map speed is crucial.
On large maps, it's less clear-cut. I still like hydras, but guardians do present problems at times...
As regards the armour/attack business: It depends on what you're facing. Generally, I'd say the armour is more useful. Typically in Brood Wars you stim your troops, wait a couple of seconds while the medics heal stim damage, and _then_ charge. The benefits are most visible against dark templar, where one armour upgrade effectively _doubles_ your units' hit points (since an unarmoured marine dies in one hit, whereas one level of armour will sustain them for two).
On the other hand, if you're putting the marines in bunkers (say you're doing a tank push), then attack is, obviously, more useful. |
| #4 Roqu[29698] |
| HOTSB102-15.splitrock.net |
In zerg vs zerg it's lings to muts...if you make hydraz you are dead...
Lings > hydraz
Mutz > hydraz
guardians are not as good as mutz vs hydz when you get 2 clicks of mutz you can kill all the hydz in the world and nuthen is going to stop you.
but the real thing that makes mutz better then hydz is not the fact that mutz kill them dead or are faster it's that you can kill there exp's and money before they can do anything and then run off like a chobo.
mutz are the bomb.
|
#5  [29724] |
| 136.2.1.101 |
| It is interesting you reported a zerg vs. zerg game while asking about terran armour. It is generally accepted that all the top level players (myself not among them) upgrade attack first. Top players usually attack with tons of marines and the extra damage from so many marines does more harm to the opponent than the extra armour does to preserve your marines. This is a known truth in Starcraft: Offense wins, defense loses. |
| #6 biscuit_head[29752] |
| 136.2.1.101 |
| Have to disagree with your comment TT... in terran vs lurks/dts, the ability to withstand an extra hit (2 instead of 1) with armor upgrade is a big payoff. I think I read at ntwr.com's strats to do this (as written by yavoon'). I think "top" players would upgrade armor first vs lurks/dts. Other matchups may be different though (goons/zeals/hydras/lings/etc). |
| #7 [29763] |
| 136.2.1.101 |
| Hey Biscuit good to hear from you even though you are wrong. The top players upgrade attack first. Of course there could be exceptions, but I am sure I am right. Are you going to be on tonight? Atty@law.jr and I are planning on a little smackdown session. |
| #8 Addity-X[29781] |
| px1he.ss.wave.shaw.ca |
Upgrades in 1on1 with terran:
Vs toss: go armor in case of dts, u need that extra shot(gives you time to scan)
Vs zerg: go attack first, meds give you your armor and attack is better just cuz i think it is :)
Vs terran: screw infantry and go tanks//wraiths |
| #9 DeezNutz[29807] |
| user-33qt8co.dialup.mindspring.com |
| Thanks for the input guys- And Addity, you're the first person to say something I totally agree with. I guess having to upgrade crappy armor 1/3 of the time (vs toss) isn't so bad. The armor will buy scan time until sci vessels at least. |
| #10 Heartcutter[29933] |
| adsl-63-198-40-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net |
Terran question of weapons vs. armor? Weapons all the way.
Here's why (Here's starcraft theory for ya):
Assume that you have 12 marines and no medics vs. 400 dark templar. The trick though is, that the DT are sent only one at a time, and only after one dies. With the damage upgrade, you are able to kill the DT before it crosses the distance and attack, allowing you to win this fight.
Now imagine if you have +1 armor instead. You only take 40 damage the DT's strike, allowing you to survive a hit. The DT, however, are able to hit your marines once before dying. And once you begin losing men, it's all over.
The inverse is actually true for melee units. Armor is actually more beneficial. Why? Because they can survive to close with the enemy. Imagine the same scenario, but from the Protoss perspective. Your DT can either have +1 weapon or +1 armor. If he has +1 weapon, it can kill a marine in a single swipe. But it still dies before it gets there.
With +1 armor, the DT can close, get a hit in, then die.
So the general rule is: armor first if melee units, damage first if range units.
-HC
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| #11 Dausuul[29946] |
| hillmac2.cc.purdue.edu |
Sorry I didn't get my name on that comment. It was number three, btw.
The point of going hydras against a Zerg is not to go straight hydras. It's to get lurkers and hydras together. Lings can kill hydras, but three lurkers buried under the hydras make them invincible against pretty much any number of lings, regardless of detection.
So, the situation is thus. Both players have produced your early units in numbers and have just started to get your "tech" units. You have a large force of hydras and a couple of lurkers. Your opponent has a large force of lings and a few mutas. You attack him, or he attacks you. Your buried lurkers slaughter the lings, while your hydras overwhelm the mutas with superior numbers. Then you march into his base, bury the lurkers in his probe line, and... well, you all know what happens after that.
Note that this strategy depends on early confrontation. If you let him build up his muta force, the advantage shifts to him, because lings in numbers do beat hydras. (However, I do not consider that the mobility argument applies; hydras can react very quickly to threats, thanks to a little gadget called a nydus canal. If you're Zerg and don't use those things, you should.)
As to the armour/attack debate: what can I do but bow to Heartcutter's superior analytical skills? |
| #12 Dausuul[29947] |
| hillmac2.cc.purdue.edu |
| Erk. I screwed up that last post. I'm tired. What I meant to say was that mutas in numbers do beat hydras. (Lings do, too, but I addressed that point earlier... right. I'll just crawl off to bed now.) |
| #13 Dark Templar[29967] |
| 207.28.97.101 |
| I totally agree with you. You should upg attacks and range and let the medics be your armor. Taking gamage isn't that bad if you get healed 2 seconds later. |
| #14 [-Nemesi$-][30136] |
| cr284156-a.poco1.bc.wave.home.com |
| Im very sorry to say ure all wrong.. #1 terran vs toss getting armor incase of dt = bullshit.. ur assuming that the opponent is unable to click on the forge and upgrade (nota good thing) if u upgrade so can they.. unless ur playing a newbie but attack is always better in large #'s |
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