| #1 Talon[30010] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| This report was a little rushed, the was played only yesterday. I just want to see what kind of feedback I get from a more strategy based report than just something for enjoyment. I give myself a 7. |
| #2 _CraZy_[30012] |
| px1he.ss.wave.shaw.ca |
| second ^^ I felt it was a pretty good report. I gotta try that goliath strat hehe it will be funny =). But that won't work on good players. It only worked vs clown because he is a newbie =P nice report |
| #3 The-Dark-0ne[30013] |
| proxy1.gvcl1.bc.wave.home.com |
| Yeah what crazy said=] but by the way its not that origonal its been done many times before=] |
| #4 JoLLy~TeAcuP[30014] |
| proxy3-external.elcjn1.sdca.home.com |
god pplz. Learn to spell "original." ;-p
the report was way too 1sided.
1.0 huk huk |
| #5 [nh]SSD4[30015] |
| user___4.nf.sympatico.ca |
Origional is spelt
Original.
This was wayyy too one-sided. Dude, make it where at least there's a chance where the other person will win.
Golaith Thunder, LOL. Wow, Templar and reaver thunder would like to play that. Also, dweb win game plz? 12 dragoons>12 gols so also dragoons are a viable option.
Early game vs mass gols dragoons will hold, and if he sticks with only golaiths than you win, but with other support, reavers and templars and dweb are necessary.
Many counters open to this strategy. Please do not post so 1-sided reports.
All the best,
[nh]SSD4 |
| #6 Talon[30016] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| IT AINT SPEELLED "ORIGINAL" IN MA DIXIONARIE SO SHUD UP AND I AMS GOSUMAN! |
| #7 Talon[30017] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| And as I said, Mark4 made me. |
| #8 Talon[30019] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| It was Mark who said it was <b><i>origional</b></i>(<i>!!</i>) and he who made me report the game and he who owned the game but wouldn't play a second game. Dammit, Mark4, you made me look bad now! |
#9  [30020] |
| chello212186163122.ibk.surfer.at |
next time mark gna smack some random guy with a scout only strat and make another poor guy report it
I like white fonts on black background
7.
|
| #10 [{o}][30021] |
| dialup-209.246.67.249.NewYork2.Level3.net |
| Awesome report. I'll go with Teacup on my rating...j/k |
| #11 T_Mac[30023] |
| on-tor-blr-a58-01-322.idirect.com |
| Pretty good, but mark won, and he cant spell :( |
| #12 Talon[30027] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| =o that was kool. Thanx necro, it seems my latest reports have a tendency to get only 1 rating. |
| #13 Baxter-O'Bixby[30028] |
| info-190-35.Lib.Berkeley.EDU |
Mass goliaths would kick ass against someone using an air-based strat (I've seen gols do amazing things to carriers), but it doesn't seem like they'd be viable against a decent land attack. Fighting cannons, for example, with goliaths is not cost-effective at all, at least in my experience.
Then again, I'm talking out of my ass, and I've never tried producing goliaths in REALLY large numbers, so maybe I'll give it a shot the next time I random to Terran, and if it works I'll shut my mouth. ;-) |
| #14 ::nobody::[30029] |
| dt0f4n84.san.rr.com |
I haven't even read it, but the animated gif has my name in the pop-up text, so I give it a 10!~ =)
Ciao!
::nobody:: |
| #15 probe[30033] |
| 242849hfc204.tampabay.rr.com |
first of all, headless clown really sucks
wow, i mean, he made like 4 goons the whole game
yay?
and 2 corsairs?
and mark4 obviously had his goliaths attacking his own by accident, because losing 3(!?!) to 2 zealots and 1 goon is kinda pathetic.. with just a tiny bit of micro you can lose 0 gols
no offense to mark, just saying he mustve goofed tehre
and once agian, headless clown sucks for doing nothign the whole game
congrats man, ill try that expand-3-times-with-no-defense strategy
-p |
#16  [30035] |
| staff-29.ahnet.net |
| Yes! My name in lights once again! I drown in the glory!! Bahaha!! |
| #17 Mario(poland)[30036] |
| nat.cs.bialystok.pl |
| hi game was nice but i think fast toss expand and few templars could give a big advantage ... 3 factories at start.. hmm good defence but rather a passive style of game then corsairs with D-web should make the trick |
| #18 [30037] |
| staff-29.ahnet.net |
This report was great! Goliath Thunder awesome. Mark likes it cause its a macro terran strat, and of course why he's good at it.
The best thing about the strat is the low level of micro. Also on dire people tend to make air units which goliaths beat easily. And if you can take out some shuttles like mark did with those patrolling goliaths you can really turn the tide.
Goliath Thunder has its merits thats for sure. |
| #19 Mr.Mediocre[30039] |
| 123.ippool.xville.multipro.com |
| I liked it. Talon, you pipefitter, mail me that gif program. Like i said, good BR, id go with the 8. and a jar of jelly because it tastes good. |
| #20 Talon[30042] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| Scru U! I dun gotta mail you crapola! |
| #21 Headless_Clown[30045] |
| cr647412-a.flfrd1.on.wave.home.com |
To all of you who said I sucked, thank you very much :P I hate you all =) ummm, playing against mark4 is no picnic...he could go mass scv drop and kill most people. loading 4 goliaths on each dropship makes a large goliath drop pretty easy. mark4 claimed he was going goliath thunder but i didn't believe him, that's why i went with the quick corsair to see what his strat was. Anyway, i am now like 1-3 against mark and i consider that a good record...anyway, cool strat, good to see something that i haven't seen before.
Lurking in the sideshow,
Headless_Clown |
| #22 AnOnymOu5[30046] |
| spider-wn024.proxy.aol.com |
The name Goliath Thunder is original, but the strat isn't.
Terran'a'saur kicked my ass with it, and whenever random gives me Terran on an island map against Protoss or Terran I've used it with varying degrees of success. Once you hit that critical mass of goliaths every island you have in your possesion becomes undroppable. |
| #23 Persian[30047] |
| proxy1-external.rdc1.az.home.com |
| Tmac, don't tell me it was goliaths you lost to.... |
#24  [30049] |
| 1Cust145.tnt14.tco2.da.uu.net |
Did I mention I used this on T_Mac and won? He went hard goon drop with a few reavers here and there....
BTW, I microed during the first drop and lost 1, count em, 1 goliath. =[ |
| #25 AlexanderYoshi[30051] |
| bgm-34-231.stny.rr.com |
Mark4 never lies.
*From experience*
*winces as he remembers the time he lost vs Mark4 using his double star coursairs against him, because he didn't believe M4 said he was going mass hydra* |
| #26 asdf[30066] |
| 24.113.31.224 |
is Mark4 that "godly" ? ...... umm
|
| #27 SCV[30069] |
| c3-1d120.neo.rr.com |
Mark4 sucks so much not even light can escape him =
^^
i love you fucking so much!
|
| #28 Fox^1[30079] |
| csdi2-proxy.service.digital.com |
Mix in some science vessels, infantry, BC, ghosts, tanks, wraiths, valks, vultures, and you'll really have some thunder going on....... Wait a minute.
Golaiths > flying units
Mark4 > most of us
Fox^1 > captain bizzaro
Great BR, kinda short though.
Fox^1 |
| #29 Mogalin[30080] |
| 209.226.37.5 |
| On a completely unrelated subject me and Orc played a 1 hour and 8 minute TvT game last night - it was a really good game. Weeee? |
| #30 sync[30081] |
| 209-30-242-215.flash.net |
I used this on island hop one time, but my strat involved 4 factories. I don't think I did it as well as Mark4, considering I lost, but it was fun.
gols = ownage |
| #31 Heartcutter[30102] |
| adsl-63-198-40-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net |
I like strats like this. I think it's the bom. Can you give a specific build? Also, you may want to incorporate bunkerless CC defense, as it absolutely crushes DT and Zealot drops.
I also like the name. I'm going to start banging on it as well and share what kind of build I come up with.
BTW, do you think you could also get along without an academy with this strat?
-HC |
| #32 Krebster[30104] |
| 216.20.43.13 |
Correction mark CANNOT win with an scv drop although a probe drop is debatable.
That strat has its merits just remove half of the goliaths and magically turn them into tanks. =] |
| #33 Barage[30105] |
| dialup-63.210.79.74.Atlanta1.Level3.net |
*cringe* I still have memories of Orc using this against my zerg in dire. Well, I guess the credit for creating everything always goes to the one who packages it, not the one who first thinks it up.
The big problem with fighting this is that you simply cannot drop on 6+ 1/1 goliaths and expect results. Not even corsairs in mass can stop a drop attempt like that can. Imo, though, it best works if you early expand as well. Then you can not only have the 3-4 factories pumping but also grab some firebats for the dt/zealot/crackling lovers and some wraiths to play around with (even against mass observer/corsair, wraiths can still find places to be annoying). A terran can then expand out, perhaps using a few decoys to draw the corsairs away, and expand. After that, slip in a few tanks (3 realy is enough, since they are just for cannon slamming) and go hardcore on the bases.
As for being contained? The zerg can fight off corsairs massing w/ going hydra. What makes the terran different with using goliaths? |
| #34 [30106] |
| strangers.bragg.army.mil |
Some interesting side notes, mostly from my game vs T_Mac.
First, I'm not the originator of this strat obviously, Johnny is, so he should be the one to give details. I went with the three factory variation cuz I like to mass units early in islands. Academy came after the 5th goliath or so. I put the goliaths on the sweet spots at the edge of the island to defend an early reaver drop.
Rather than screw around with microing tank drops to take out cannons, I floated factories, built add ons at the islands I wanted to siege from and went from there. If I needed to expand I just continued cranking units.
The real strength of this match up is that it destroys air pretty bad, and starts prepping you for late game finger of god stuff from the start. Plus people under produce ground. I've managed to kill the enemy main with a 12-16 goliath drop every time I used this strat, usually in the mid game.
The T_Mac preferred counter is scout rushing. I'm not kidding you. About halfway through our game he switched to full on scout production....he was having a very bad day I'd like it to be noted.
Don't be afraid to add in the tanks for siegeing or science vessels for that bad ass 12 orbed goliath attack in late game. Let's see if we can get Johnny to post some refinements for the crowd here =].
There aren't too many straight out and out counters for this, unlike most terran strats. You need to outresource and buy storm or reavers to take this down as protoss...and if you have to outresource to beat a strat its a good one...like heavy metal. |
| #35 Heartcutter[30110] |
| adsl-63-198-40-138.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net |
Other little notes:
I've been playing it against the comp, to see how long it takes and where the vulnerabilities lie, and here are my observations:
Gas is the essential resource. Everything I wanted to accomplish hinged on it. Mineral was not a problem.
I was going with the 3 factory/1 port solution (only 1 add-on on one of the factories). This got me through the midgame quite easily. I never felt particularly vulnerable to any midgame attack. But I would have been sad if someone dropped a reaver behind the mineral line, so adding another turret there would be good.
I was only using 1 turret for detection. Since this was sealed in depots with a bunkerless defense (2 tank variety. no more), DT's would have harmed very little, if any of my troops or buildings. As stated before, I'll be placing another turret behind the mineral line.
The resource intake balanced fairly well with the production facilites, and I wouldn't go past 3 factories and a single port until late game.
Upgrades came out of 1 armory. And all of the upgrades were... Vehicle Weapon upgrades. I didn't bother to upgrade armor. The reasoning is that 90% of the damage done to goliaths is the plasma bolt variety, from dragoons and cannons. That's 20 a pop (-1 armor makes it 19). The benefit is really insignificant for armor in this case, and the gas is in such short supply. So, I was quite happy to have 3/0 charon goliaths. Here is how the damage breaks out:(no upgrades [opponent's 0/0], 7 shots to death; +1 armor upgrade, 7 shots to death; +2 armor upgrade, 8 shots to death; +3 upgrade. 8 shots to death).
The finisher was always the same... Orbed action. Multiple dropships dropping 16-20 goliaths at a pop. Against a human, I'd probably orb one dropship and all of the goliaths onboard, to eat all the storm, reaver shots, etc.
Gotta test this more. But it looks promising. I like it.
-HC |
| #36 [30114] |
| staff-29.ahnet.net |
Goliath Thunder Details..
Well the cool thing about Goliath Thunder is that it actually works against all 3 races. What your mostly hoping is for your opponent to go air. When he does go air, you'll be sitting pretty. It's sort of a gamble. On island maps your enemy will do one of 2 things. Go air or drops. If he goes air your golden, if he goes drop you can possibly take down the dropships before they land by positioning your goliaths in smart places, as Mark4 did in his last game using Goliath Thunder.
The reason I started using Goliath Thunder is because of a simple reason. It was fun. I enjoyed using goliaths because they are such an underused unit, and wanted to see if they could win me games. After playing a few games vs toss,zerg, and terran I found that mass goliaths really can win you games. The circumstances have to be right. You dont start a game commited 100% to mass goliaths. You want to use them if suspect your opponent is going heavy air. Also in island games Goliath Thunder is a pretty reliable strat in almost every situation I can imagine.
As far as build orders go, I dont have a specific one. The 3 factory variation that mark4 used is fine. You always need to make a small amount of tanks just to be safe. Goliath Thunder isn't 100% goliaths its basically a variation of heavy metal with a strong emphasis on goliaths and less on vultures and tanks. Obviously you want to get the Charon upgrade right away as well as +1 vehicle weapons. I always get comsat, just because its so cheap and versatile. You can sometimes skip engineering bay, but I do tend to make one for minimal turreting. You just need a turret nearby for reliable detection.
During Late game I tend to have 80% Goliaths, 20% tanks and a couple of Science Vessels. I bring along SCV's for repairing and turrets.
Last night I played a TvT game vs Persian-POW. He was kicking my ass going hard wraiths and killing my only expansion while he had 2. I had a decision, try and match his air or go Goliaths. I went goliaths eventually getting to 3/3 securing a couple expansions while running over his numerous expansions with mostly goliaths. 1/1 wraiths are no match for 3/3 goliaths.. Man, one battle I killed around 30 wraiths with 8 goliaths. I came at them from different directions trapping them.. Really a wraith with 1 damage upgrade does a measly 9 pts- 4 armor=5 pts of damage to a 125hp goliath.. hehe.
Persian finally switched tactics and started making tanks instead of wraiths. But 3/3 goliaths do pretty well against 0/0 tanks when you outnumber the tanks 3:1.
Anyway.. just make a bunch of Goliaths, upgrade them and use a few tanks for backup. As long as you spend most of your money on goliaths and upgrades for them, that's Goliath Thunder!!!!! |
| #37 psionic_jedi_[30116] |
| sdn-ar-001nypougP251.dialsprint.net |
| Are you serious, this is a strat?! It works better on land to a certain degree, and if you have very good micro. This has weaknesses though. Major weaknesses. Take corsairs. If you have lots of them (which you should), just dweb a bunch of shit, and drop off reavers. I mean lots of reavers. 4 shuuttles worth of reavers. Also, arbiters with stasis/recall own this, but I have to say, it works quite well. |
| #38 shockwave[30123] |
| exchange1.sensable.com |
Purely on a superficial note, one reason I can't take goliaths seriously is because of their utterly wimpy ground attack sound. Do you guys remember the machine gun towers back in C&C? Those things sounded NASTY, you didn't want to get anywhere close to them even though in reality they did very little damage against non-infantry units. I'd love if goliaths were given some better attack sounds. Also give BCs a better attack sound, and a nice pretty explosion when their yamato hits (whether it kills the target or not), and I bet that alone will make me want to start playing Terran more :-).
Nice strat. I'll try on my next game :-).
|
| #39 Talon[30132] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
In my game, I found gas was a pincher, with my first expansion still getting on-line, I only had enough gas for 3 factories to produce goliaths intermittantly. Adding tanks was not a necessity since a reaver drop would normally be 1-2 reavers or 1 reaver and 1 dragoon, and this can be dealt with easily be a half control group or so of Goliaths. Nobody drops more than 2 reavers at a time unless they are some kind of robotic whore who has 4 robotics facilities and no starports.
The Tanks also cost 100 gas with 150 for siege. I didn't think this worth the cost since I could barely keep up with goliath production with an occasional dropship and weapons upgrade. |
| #40 [30135] |
| 1Cust123.tnt1.rdu1.da.uu.net |
| Yeah, I find myself forced to crank vultures right before I drop to get gas for the dropships. |
| #41 GameOverZ[30150] |
| proxy.siscom.net |
I'm glad to see someone using... what is it called... Goliath Thunder.
Only I never called it this. I would either macro the gollies like the lowlifes on the bus smoke their phillies.
Er... Yeah. I akwardly macro, especially goliaths.
I just take a full control group of any unit, matrix all of em, then scoff at the futile storm abuse my opponents practice. Didn't they call it 'orbing'?
|
| #42 Krebster[30160] |
| spider-wb023.proxy.aol.com |
I have tested against and as it in nohunters when i played he tried sair contain i managed to escape by them and won.
In my game as toss templar/goon just crushed it like a bug.
Then i tried it against someone in x17 and after laughing at the mass goliaths he saw on his reaver drop he won in a 1.5 hour game.
I then tried it on a public game where he carrier rushed needless to say i didn't do so bad. |
| #43 Talon[30161] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
You just lost cuz you suck.
huk |
| #44 Carnal XTC[30192] |
| 210-56-9-108.Dialup.Islamabad.comsats.net.pk |
I'm glad to see this resurrection of Goliath pride, but I don't think any strat involving macro-massing of a SINGLE unit deserves a name like, "Goliath Thunder!" It seems to me that given the current state of island games (mass air), players would logically counter this with goliaths, the best anti-air Terrans have. And, as far as counters go, the more the merrier, right? As long as your foe is DEFINATELY committed to the strat you're countering.
It's like playing firebats/medics against someone who always masses zealots. ("Firebat Flame?" ;) It certainly seems amazing that you can liquify him so badly over and over again, but the victory is determined by his (in-)ability to adapt his playstyle. Condisering the amount of time most players have been playing mass air on island maps, it may be that it's just taking them a while to catch on.
Let's wait until it's tried and true on a larger scale, I say...
<gee, hope that was comprehensible...>
--XTC |
| #45 Talon[30205] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| Carnal, Sit your bitch ass down! |
| #46 Dausuul[30247] |
| hill-d-153.resnet.purdue.edu |
I suck with Terran, but from my limited experience this strat does look pretty powerful. Just blue-skying possible counters:
Guardians. On an island map, guardians have an edge over Goliaths in terms of mobility; if the guardians hover just at the limit of their range, they can pound the coast while the Goliaths struggle to find the right spot to counterattack. Of course, it's rough when you try to move in for the kill.
Queens and broodling. However, mass broodling is a pain.
Mass corsairs with carrier backup. The 'sairs dweb the entire base, and the carriers move in and burn it all down.
Hallucinations and drops. Make a zillion hallucinatory shuttles and fly them in ahead of the real ones. Hopefully a few reavers get through, after which the Goliaths are screwed.
Arbiters with stasis field and recall. Stasis the Goliaths and recall a dragoon horde into the middle of the base.
Aerial containment. This one seems like the best bet to me. Keep the Terran from dropping or CC-floating, using mutas, corsairs, or wraiths as appropriate. Expand rapidly and build up your forces. Then you just wear the Goliaths down over time.
Comments on any of these? |
| #47 Talon[30261] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
Gaurdians suck against Goliaths. The range upgrade ownz.
Corsairs would need tons of time and gas to get enough.
Queens are lame, you have to wait forever just to broodling once.
If reavers are surrouned by Goliaths they die fast.
Arbiters will be shot down before they can get a good stasis off.
Goliaths can cover the gap between islands. You can stick them on one side which will provide cover for a dropship to ferry troops to a new island.
|
| #48 Carnal XTC[30404] |
| 210-56-9-107.Dialup.Islamabad.comsats.net.pk |
hehehe damn, talon, didn't know you took this stuff so personally. ;)
BTW, queens are good versus goliaths, because you can use them to ensnare. Of course, that's only half the battle...
--XTC |
| #49 Talon[31193] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| Tons o' comments |
| #50 Talon[31194] |
| cx110054-a.pwy1.sdca.home.com |
| eh, Might as well make it 50 |
Home
Forum
Starcraft Tournaments
