| #1 some lurker[153718] |
| CPE00a065cb0ceb-CM014100005949.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com |
| uh, 1st. |
#2  [153719] |
| c-24-8-188-140.client.comcast.net |
Uh huh.
I'm going to approve this, but not rate it.
Now look, pal, you wrote this very well... Or somebody else wrote it for you. I'm not going to accuse you plagarism, but I have my suspicions. |
#3  [153720] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
What would otherwise have seemed like a lack of sensitivity for others misery is simply explained by your ignorance.
Please, never write anything like this again. It's not even fiction, it's just disgusting. |
| #4 [153721] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
| Hell this isn't even appropriate story for an accomplished writer. |
| #5 [153722] |
| c-24-8-188-140.client.comcast.net |
| I didn't even read it. What was the content? |
| #6 [153723] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
This kid -- or a person with a very childish understanding of the world -- wrote a first person battlereport about the Beslan attack. I think that's enough to say about it.
As a rater, you really have to use discretion when deciding if something should be approved or not. It would probably be best if this never saw the light of day. |
| #7 [153724] |
| c-24-8-188-140.client.comcast.net |
| Ahh. I read one paragraph and saw it wasn't spam, but also stank of plagarism. Shrug. |
| #8 Mostly-Harmless[153725] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
Personally I don't see how this is so horrible as it DID occur, are you going to act like it didn't? I also don't see how it shows a lack of sensitivity for others because I am sorry for what occured there. Am I going to write it off as something that never happened? Am I going to ignore the realism of what happened? I could certainly re-write it to suit your needs but I don't feel that way. Maybe to you real issues are controversial, sorry for hurting your eyes but to me if something has occured then I can not ignore it.
Certainly I could have picked plenty of other topics but this is the one I wanted to do. Sorry for offending you, sorry not everything is happy in this world, I feel as though your criticisms should be backed up though with things other than "this was too vivid and this statement was too harsh" unless you can show how it is un-realistic.
Eldrich I did not plagerize this. I am sure if this was written before and how some people find it controversial, it would be in the light and easier to see and find. I took the event that occured and based on things I have read and heard on TV about it I made this up. A lot of the things in this actually happened... guess that makes me have a childish understanding of the world if it's been reported.
In any case I am sorry to have ruined the fragile minds that exist here with a piece that wasn't even intended to be rude or hateful... my intentions and your reactions aren't meeting on common ground I see, I did not see this go against guidelines so I thought it would be acceptable.
Ohh well Emerson once said,
"To be great is to be misunderstood."
I feel as though what I tried to convey was misunderstood by a long shot. I don't feel great, but I do feel something... |
| #9 Mostly-Harmless[153726] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
| Eldrich I want you to show me how this was plagarized instead of just pointing the finger. I did not plagerize a damn thing in this. |
| #10 [153728] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
Just 'because it happened' isn't an excuse to have a field day with it. You see a rape victim, do you take a fucking picture?
Children -- someone's children -- were murdered in cold blood, and then you work a piece of fiction around it and put it in an avenue of entertainment?
It's been done before, sure, and its called capitalizing on human tragedy. Selling T-Shirts outside of Columbine might be your prerogative as a merchant in a free market/society, but I dont care how sympathetic the slogans are. You're still going to get the shit beaten out of you.
Finally, in case you need reminding, YOU WEREN'T THERE. YOU DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO WAS THERE. YOUR PICTURE OF EVENTS WAS FED TO YOU FROM CNN. If you were trying to widen our eyes to the wrongs of the world, I know of no greater flavor of hypocrisy. Well intentioned or not, it's not something you should write about.
It wasn't that this was rude, or hateful, or malicious in any form. It's just a subject that you dont touch with a fifteen foot pole. Don't claim to feel others pain, and don't expect to get a warm reception when you do. |
| #11 Avail[153729] |
| c-65-97-24-49.va.client2.attbi.com |
| I'm going to have to agree with LN here. It's just awful to write about this tragedy. |
| #12 Mostly-Harmless[153730] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
Capitalizing? What do I have to gain from this? Having a field day? I wrote a single piece on it, if it were a "field day" I'd have written more elaborate and maybe multi-piece. I didn't try to widen any eyes and I wasn't there, I was never in a hostage situation, hence fiction. I also haven't gotten everything from CNN, in fact the only thing I got was the last line from them.
Everything else was interviews with ACTUAL PEOPLE THERE. It was fiction, made up on a whim, other authors do it all the time. Look at Law and Order, The West Wing, even CSI. Many a time they are ripped from the headlines the stories they do and I don't see you writing letters to them telling them to stop performing a false act of empathy.
Why should ANYONE be restricted to writing about anything? You're saying certain things are uncouth to write about, I have never heard such an illogical statement.
I never said that I felt their pain, I never claimed to have been there, I stated this was fiction, that is not a defense for the subject matter, but it is a defense for the above mentioned statements that you have deemed appropriate for justifying your point of view.
You didn't like the subject matter, you feel it was immoral, fine and well but you are putting words in my mouth as well when you try to tell me what's what. Keep your words in your own mouth and allow me to speak my own.
I never claimed to feel others pain. Show me where I made such a claim. Everything was made up, being a human I can GUESS upon what MAY HAVE occured on my own. By listening to interviews I can re-assure myself.
Sorry you were so offended by realism. I took a more realistic approach. If I EVER write anything again, I'll be sure to water it down for those who would rather ignore the world and events in it. My apologies. |
#13  [153731] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
Let me try to shed some light on how I personally feel about this battlereport. I'll try and be as constructive as I can.
First of all, if you do write something like this focused on realism, write it respectfully. You begin in a way that in many ways resembles the start of a fanfic. Then you dive into what is perhaps the year's most horrific event. You develop an unrealistic portrayal of a child thinking and acting much like an adult. The terrorists are displayed as English thugs - that's right, in a submission as serious as this you could have researched their culture a bit. The teacher depiction was ridiculous - he'd have been as scared as anyone else, and how could he have known the government was on it?
All that's beside the point, of course. There's a reason Hollywood hasn't developed a movie about 9/11. Nobody has developed a work about the Rwandan Genocide ( at least, not covering what it actually was ), and you won't see anyone writing a fictional work about what's happening in Darfur. These things are still fresh in people's mind, writing a work of fiction about them is A) disrespectful to those who survived B) hurtful to surviving relatives C) Blasphemous to those who died D) Ridiculous, since you obviously have very little knowledge of the culture and setting in which it occurred.
As an amendum to what I wrote above, I notice you say CSI and other shows develop stories about these events all the time. There is a massive - massive - difference between referring to events, or creating tales of similar happenings, and actually making a graphic work of fiction depicting a concrete occurance of this nature, so soon after it's happened.
There. I tried to keep this post as inoffensive as possible, though that is difficult. Don't be dissuaded by your lack of discretion in your first post and people's reactions to that. Your next report will doubtless be better. Also, don't think that we'll carry a bias, because we don't, period.
That's all I'll say about this. 1 is correct. |
| #14 [153732] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
Oh, reviewing the comments above I feel like I need to touch up a couple things:
"Personally I don't see how this is so horrible as it DID occur, are you going to act like it didn't? I also don't see how it shows a lack of sensitivity for others because I am sorry for what occured there."
--> you say "I don't feel how this is so horrible." Try to feel again.
--> Then you say, "I don't see how it shows a lack of sensitivity...I am sorry for what occurred there." Obviously you've just shown a lack of sensitivity in your above comment.
I don't think Lucky was wrong about his field day comment. Whether you're having a 3 hour picnic of a full-out trip to Wonderland, you're still having a field day. This was long enough to qualify as such. |
| #15 snowyday[153734] |
| 24.107.146.105.charter-stl.com |
| I'm pretty sure when he said, "I don't see how this is so horrible" he was referring to his writing of the story. You can't nail him on that. |
| #16 [153735] |
| c-24-8-188-140.client.comcast.net |
I didn't accuse you of plagarism, sir, and even if I did I would appreciate it if you took the time to spell my name. I said it stank of plagarism. In case you are not familiar with that term, it means it feels like it. Why? Because works of fiction like this are everywhere, you're a no-name new guy, and the writing felt like it.
I have no idea why you chose to do this, but it was a dumb idea. |
| #17 Mostly-Harmless[153738] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
I said "I don't see" I didn't say "I don't feel" so your review is a bit skeptical although I did take your point of views into account. Although there were images released of the Terrorists, I described them as English you say? Based on what account? I had them speak English because I don't know Russian, that was about the biggest description that existed with them. They were rather generic otherwise.
EldritchEEvil as you MUST have me call you, saying something "stank of plagarism" is as much an accusation as any. Saying "it feels like it." is an accusation. You accused me, I defended. That is about that. Just because someone is new should not suddenly make something they did "stink of plagarism" at least I'd never make such an accusation without ever reading the whole thing, as you proved you did. |
| #18 LameJoker[153739] |
| pool-68-236-151-116.alb.east.verizon.net |
| Not plagarized, but certainly in bad taste. |
| #19 Reverse[153740] |
| h0000949954c7.ne.client2.attbi.com |
| Please delete. There is no way this should be on battlereports.com, or anywhere, for that matter. I definitely agree with LN. |
| #20 mattzarella[153743] |
| 162.7.33.65.cfl.rr.com |
hehe, this all raises an interesting question!
first of all, i really doubt that it was plagarized, because the grammar mistakes are pretty consistent throughout his comments too. if he copied it from someone, he did a damn good job of becoming them as well.
however, in the long run that probably makes things worse. you took the time and effort to write a blurb (a very blurby blurb) about something that nobody even wants to hear about - that's probably why everyone is so mad.
what i want to know is, why did nobody get angry at me for writing about hurricanes? was it less of a tragedy? everyone will look on death differently, but to someone's family it's basically the same - tasteless. if someone who had a father or brother came to this website and read my report and got extremely offended, i wouldn't blame them.
buuut then again i took more than 5 minutes to write mine. i was also there when it happened, and i gave the dead some respect in the fact that i didn't write my entire piece about them. you played on the SOLE fact that there was devastation and terrible conditions and blah blah blah..
if you had taken the time and effort to write a thought out piece, you would just be called an insensitive faggot rather than an illiterate insensitive faggot.
which is probably better. i guess. |
| #21 endersshadow[153744] |
| ool-182d2f86.dyn.optonline.net |
Eld, you have three E's in your tag.
Should be just two. |
| #22 wakiki[153745] |
| cable-24-196-20-113.mtv.al.charter.com |
Huh.
Okay, first off I would like to say that I agree with the 1, although I do think it was good to unlock it, since it wasn't spam and didn't have profanity. Everything that has been said about it being inappropriate, too soon, is all true.
However, your writing simply wasn't good. You listed everything - the storyline, even the emtions of the main character. For instance:
"I was trapped in the school. Beslan... Never would I have imagined terrorists to strike here, then again, in life I try to not imagine any horrors yet to be lived. I was in the halls as screams broke out and gunfire follow. Flashes illuminated the foggy glass of a nearby room's door as bangs of fire roared from the room. I didn't know what to do I stood in shock, paralyzed by my own fears, the door swung open. As a man masked in a black ski mask came out from the door I felt myself die. I felt blood rush from my body, I felt emotions twist and bend, my life was over I thought. The man came out and yelled."
List, list, list, etc. etc. No descriptions here. This was a problem throughout every part of this.
Also, you need more character developement. Don't start the story with "I was in Beslan and we were attacked by terrorists"(that's basically what you said). Instead start with a normal day at school, give us some information on the character, his friends, his teachers. Make us feel something for him, make us like him.
When the terrorists come to the school, don't just say "the terrorists came." Ive never been in a terrorist attack, obviously, so I don't know what this would be like, but I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't know right off the bat. Probably, they would make somebody announce over the intercom to report to the gym, or something. The character should be confused at this point. Why must the entire school report to the gym? The character should be confused, and the reader should be confused with him. Throughout this you should have some sort of foreshadowing and hints at bad things happening, and slowly buil up to where the reader discovers that the school is Beslan, and that the terrorists have taken over. Make this come as a shock. Don't just start the short story with:
"I was trapped in the school. Beslan... Never would I have imagined terrorists to strike here" - that's just horrible.
When the character is laying in the gym, have a flashback of him thinking about some important moment in his life. Not related to this subject. Something that people should be able to relate to.
Also:
"A man, pure of heart, stood up and tried to help calm us all down, he was trying to get us to all be less frightened. This was a good man... he was shot."
Sheesh. This isn't effective at all. Describe the crack of the shot, supressed silence afterward(people would be too scared to scream, I think), the way the man's body fell to the ground, the surprised look in his eyes....make it chilling. Because it is chilling. Tell us more about him, preferably before the incedent.
The ending was also ineffective. The ending is the most important part. How would you make it effective? I don't know. Whatever you do, it has to blow the reader away. If you haven't already, read Drefsab's "When Worlds Collide" for an example of an effective ending.
Now then, once you finished making this a vivid, shocking piece of writing, would it still be appropriate? Probably not. It would be a huge controversy, but at least it would have been written well. I do not claim to be able to write something like I have just described, but I believe that I recognized how to improve this piece.
At least you had the guts to do this. If this is a fileread, re-write it, imagine every detail from the point of view of the main character, and pour your heart and soul into the writing. |
| #23 [153746] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
| I don't agree with some of the generalizations you made, Wak, but either way just hearing you write about how to make this better made me realize all the more that it should never have been posted in the first place. |
| #24 wakiki[153747] |
| cable-24-196-20-113.mtv.al.charter.com |
| Heh, yes I agree. Even if he waited four years, it would still be too early. Perhaps if there was some message to it, or some deeper meaning, then it would be worth it. Not just a short story. |
| #25 Mostly-Harmless[153749] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
| Maybe this is spam here, but also thank you too wakiki. |
| #26 some lurker[153750] |
| CPE00a065cb0ceb-CM014100005949.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com |
| uh, EE, i don't know if you have noticed this but your rater tag has two E's in it. it reads: "EldritchEevil". |
| #27 [153752] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
A) He has noticed it, when he became a rater,
B) It's "Dagomar." |
| #28 TwistedNecro[153753] |
| lsanca1-ar54-4-3-196-028.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net |
| Personally, I didn't read it. Being sick _AND_ being sad for these people just would not cut it. I think that at first, you took it a little hard Mostly-Harmless, but then you seemed to mature up a bit, and I must say that that was a good idea.. This could have very easily become a flame war.. And although that would be fun for me to watch, I'm sure some of you random people (not saying names) would have had a fit about this... All in all, based on the criticisms... Well I can't really form an opinion and I have homework to do, so I'll read it sometime next month (when my mono will hopefully go away). |
| #29 Desert Demon[153754] |
| user-0ce2k6b.cable.mindspring.com |
We've known about the tag for a while...
Ever since Ling screwed it up :P |
| #30 Some_God[153755] |
| ool-18b8c5a0.dyn.optonline.net |
| Wow... this comment section pwns. |
| #31 Mostly-Harmless[153756] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
| Sorry your aliases are mispelled here and there. I keep forgetting that they are like another identity to some people. |
| #32 [153757] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
| Actually it's my real life name, lol. I'm Dutch. |
| #33 Mostly-Harmless[153758] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
| Ohhh well I'm glad you knew who I meant when I mispelled it at least. |
| #34 mattzarella[153762] |
| 162.7.33.65.cfl.rr.com |
| dogomar is a new one |
| #35 [153763] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
| trust me it's not |
| #36 mattzarella[153765] |
| 162.7.33.65.cfl.rr.com |
first my strategy.. then you steal my pride
;] |
| #37 [153766] |
| c-24-8-188-140.client.comcast.net |
Re: Everyone who has so kindly pointed out the three Es in my name.
I should start a petition! To get Ling to fix it. |
| #38 wakiki[153767] |
| cable-24-196-20-113.mtv.al.charter.com |
| Heh, I never noticed before. Just, when you say it, elongate the "E" sound, of course. |
#39  [153768] |
| user-12l2ep3.cable.mindspring.com |
1,1,1,1 and a 5 from me?
Well I certainly didn't think it deserved a 1. I realize a lot of people are sensitive about this tragic and recent incident, but I don't think you went overboard, and I didn't get a sense that you "enjoyed" writing about it either. You didn't insult anyone, or make derogatory comments. I think most people were put off by the horrorificness of the event, and the fact that you recreated it, albeit in "fiction" format.
Certainly this was not your typical battle report. It was a work of fiction, it was relevant to current events, but I thought the writing itself was mediocre, hence the 5. |
| #40 wakiki[153771] |
| cable-24-196-20-113.mtv.al.charter.com |
| Wow, okay, after re-reading my comment, I realize how harsh I sounded. Eek. Sorry, didn't mean to sound so negative. |
| #41 [153772] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
| you didn't sound harsh at all. |
#42  [153776] |
| inecce-pxy01.zcce.compaq.com |
for some reason I can't rate it a 0.
y |
| #43 [153777] |
| c-24-8-188-140.client.comcast.net |
| I don't think the reason it was rated a 1 was because we were horrified, I think it was because it just plain sucked. Well-written? Yeah. But it still sucked. Page 'n' a half of dramatizing a very real, very tragic situation. I didn't find it horrific, I found it tasteless. |
| #44 Convider[153780] |
| HSE-Toronto-ppp306359.sympatico.ca |
Mostly-Harmless, you disgust me.
0 |
| #45 corp[153782] |
| dhcp-183-215-161-205.cf-res.cfu.net |
| I think this is very well done. If this was submitted by Drefsab i think the responses would be very different here. For a first submission i think its well written, perhaps when the New battlereports.com is here it can be more properly categorized. I'd give it a 6-7. |
| #46 some lurker[153784] |
| CPE00a065cb0ceb-CM014100005949.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com |
| Drefsab would never write anything like this. It's not really his style. Besides, his stories are much better written and funnier. But that's just one person's opinion. |
| #47 Nafarias[153786] |
| 216.169.205.118 |
First: Wrong subject matter for BR.com. This is a place for either game fanfics (limited) or game related reports. Wrong audience.
Second: If you were wanting a 'writing' critique, you came to the wrong place as well. BR.com is not a creative writing group. The opinions of the 'raters' are the opinions of utter laymen. Remember, just because some people have given themselves a soapbox doesn't mean that they are qualified.
Writing is very much a matter of personal taste and flavor in style. There are very few hard and fast writing rules, and most of those are grammatical. Everything else is just a personal preference or stylistic choice.
Especially beware of internet 'forums' as critics. Internet message threads (like here) tend to be small circles of people who stew in pots of their own ego. They are more interested in impressing themselves and their close online associates than anything else.
I suggest going to a creative writing circle for help working on this piece. Go get your ideas from people who have some clue of what they are talking about. |
#48  [153787] |
| 129.142.195.30.ip.tele2adsl.dk |
Okay.
I don't think it's wrong as such to write about things like this. Some of the best books in the world are written on historical events that are gruesome to think about.
However...
Your first comments lead me to believe you posted this just to spark some controversy. You certainly got it :)
The standard for the quality of writing, when doing "fiction", is much higher then with report. For example, I don't have the best english skills, and it's only my second language - but reports take less raw language skill than fiction. The quality of this piece wasn't high enough for me to consider it interesting as a work on a tragedy.
Wrong audience? You bet - see Nafarias' post for more on this.
And let's not bring up Eld's tag again - I'm pretty sure I fixed it :o |
| #49 corp[153788] |
| dhcp-183-215-161-205.cf-res.cfu.net |
| lurker, you missed the point. |
| #50 some lurker[153789] |
| CPE00a065cb0ceb-CM014100005949.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com |
| no, corp, i don't believe i did. please enlighten me. |
| #51 TwistedNecro[153792] |
| lsanca1-ar54-4-3-196-028.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net |
| If what he said wasn't so true, I'd be pretty ticked at Nafarias. :-P lol |
| #52 Mostly-Harmless[153794] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
Controversy wasn't my intent, believe me I don't plan on going away although I am sure some would probably wish that, but I do intent the next thing I do to be game-related as much of the content here on BR.com.
Thanks to those who made actual criticizms and for the small amount of "good job" (well written-wise not subject matter-wise) I realize it was not written with proper grammar... but I rarely see that come into play a lot of times. But as was written, the standards are rasied with "fiction" even though games themselves are fiction, the only thing real is that the match ever took place.
Hopefully I won't cause quite a stir with the next thing I do. |
| #53 BlueRibbon[153795] |
| 65.167.44.82 |
You can't logically say that he's wrong to write about this, but think it's cool for Mattzarella to write reports on Hurricanes in which many people died.
I'm not saying that this was anything close to Mattz's caliber on his most recent report, but you can't be that much of a hypocrite.
Now, if you actually wanted a positive response from this, you probably should have tried to show that you were a little bit more sympathetic to this event. This was tragic, and as such, the report should have a tragic vibe (which I felt that it lacked). And hey, you even had a good idea. A multipart report on this, taking a role of a hostage (At least I would read it).
This was pretty much crap though as you just rushed through it to make a point that the world in our day and age is falling apart. Try the forums next time, or you could learn from Mattz and try to make your works a little more dramatic, and informative.
I'd say a 2.5. I enjoy my fair share of tragedy, but I prefer Shakespeare's to yours. |
| #54 mattzarella[153796] |
| 162.7.33.65.cfl.rr.com |
| yo blue, i posted about that already (comment #20) |
| #55 Reverse[153797] |
| h0000949954c7.ne.client2.attbi.com |
| Mattz's reports are about his life during the crisis, and there isn't people being killed during the course of his reports (that he sees, anyways). Whereas this was specifically about death, or at least that's how it seems to me. Really, its hard to say why mattz's reports on hurricanes are acceptable and this is not. |
| #56 snowyday[153801] |
| 24.107.154.123.charter-stl.com |
Not that they'll ever admit it, or are even aware of it, but I imagine that (subconsciously at least) the fact that he's never posted anything before, never made a reputation for himself, and never said anything at all didn't help. First impressions are the ones that last, sadly, and even though it could be your honest opinion that this report was extremely out of hand, I have the feeling that a good number of you were only too willing to jump on the bandwagon and tear apart the new guy. Fortunately now that Johnny and Ling have poked their heads out and refrained from lashing him with their keystrokes, some people are starting to see the report in a better light. BlueRibbon being the perfect example.
I just wish you all wouldn't be so quick to judge. Especially about something so serious. |
| #57 wakiki[153802] |
| cable-24-196-20-113.mtv.al.charter.com |
| Hm, I'm not sure as to whether or not I was part of that bandwagon... : I might have been. |
| #58 kane[153803] |
| sl-lab12.rh.uchicago.edu |
people are arguing about whether this is appropriate or not, or good, or bad, or sensitive/insensitive, or whatever
all this ignores one major, important point:
THIS "BATTLEREPORT" FUCKING SUCKS |
| #59 Shuriken[153811] |
| ool-182e1a3b.dyn.optonline.net |
| nice first impression... |
| #60 Mostly-Harmless[153814] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
| If people let their first impression be their lasting impression that's their loss. If I can't sway them otherwise with something else more directed towards this audience I'll shrug it off as their loss, not mine. |
| #61 snowyday[153815] |
| 24.107.154.123.charter-stl.com |
| Just...something less controversial next time. Because you KNOW that some people are going to go in there with a negative bious. |
| #62 [153817] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
| Do you honestly believe I think this is horrible because of who submitted it, or rather who didn't? I know I'm new but I'd like to think I'm a little more mature than that... |
| #63 snowyday[153822] |
| 24.107.154.123.charter-stl.com |
| Surely even YOU realize that if this had been submitted by ZerG~LinG, CB or Johnny, you wouldn't have come down nearly so hard on it. I'm not saying it was a conscious decision to beat up on the new guy. I'm just saying that it's human nature to beat up on the new guy. |
| #64 BlueRibbon[153828] |
| 65.167.44.109 |
GJ snowyday. It's not like I formulated my own opinion alone. I invited a few people over and we all brainstormed how I should feel about this. Then I called up Ling on my calling card and made sure what his definite stance on this report was. And Johnny liking it.. Wow that was the decision maker on my opinion too. If I cared what most other people think I would stop using a 28.8 modem and screwing up games with my mad lag skillz/hack.
Last time a checked a 5 isn't a "better light." 5's still suck.
-_- |
#65  [153860] |
| 12-223-249-46.client.insightbb.com |
| I like how everyone is making these long detailed comments. This sucked, its as simple as that. |
| #66 Some_God[153866] |
| ool-18b8c5a0.dyn.optonline.net |
"First: Wrong subject matter for BR.com. This is a place for either game fanfics (limited) or game related reports. Wrong audience." -Nafarias
Where were you when Preator. released his "political" BR? |
| #67 [153873] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
| Right after prae, releasing a related report without a single line break (then complaining censorship when it wasn't approved). |
| #68 Nafarias[153879] |
| 66.237.84.188.ptr.us.xo.net |
| Yup - I figured since political screeds were now OK for BR.com raters to post, then why couldn't everyone else? :) Notice - I didn't post inappropriate content first, I simply continued it. |
| #69 [153887] |
| user-12l2ep3.cable.mindspring.com |
"And Johnny liking it.. Wow that was the decision maker on my opinion too"
Hey I never said I liked it. I gave it a 5. Afterwards I felt I should have given it a 4. Oh well.
I think it got a 1 from almost everyone because the subject and first person point of view was more than most can stomach.
How many of you have witnessed child birth? I can handle anything now! ;-) |
| #70 BlueRibbon[153888] |
| 65.167.44.109 |
| Well even a 4 (that at least says that you found it well off enough to finish it, at the very least) Johnny. If you know it sucked just give it a 1 :}. |
| #71 snowyday[153891] |
| 24.107.154.123.charter-stl.com |
| After all that's why you're a rater. Because you KNOW what sucks. ;D |
| #72 maareek[153925] |
| 150.176.83.30 |
I could not finish it. The body of the story completely turned me off quickly, not because of the events but because of the way it was presented.
Would this have gotten rave reviews if CB, .Prae, or YRM did it? Would it have gotten a better rating if I had done it? NO! The raters, regardless of who they are, base their rating on the SUBSTANCE of the report, not who did it. That said, you don't see any of those people doing a report like this do you? Were they to, it would be done differently I can guarantee you.
That "first impression always stands" belief is untrue for the majority of the people here. All the raters are included in that majority. Sure, you aren't going to have the love and admoration of the masses after your first report, but that's natural. Respect is something that has to be earned.
But that's less the point here than the fact that you BELIEVE, snowyday, that attacking the new guy is a focal point here. It's not. The only person who routinely ridicules new posters is Chris, and he ridicules everyone (and I like his comments the most, as he's unafraid to point of the truly poor details of a report). The "new guy" gets reamed only if he does something that causes an outrage. Be it writing a piss-poor report, or tearing down site regulars. And anyone else who did it would be treated the same way. |
| #73 maareek[153926] |
| 150.176.83.30 |
Mostly-Harmless: "I kept everything generic because I wanted it to be short, there was no character development because the story takes place for a short amount of time."
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! do that. Without characters there is no story. That is what kept this from being interesting, the subject matter is controversial, but so is a lot of stuff that people seek after. When you write something like this, you want the characters to bring people in. You want the reader to feel every breath, every move. Otherwise, it's a waste of everybody's time. If you aren't willing to spend the time on the writing to make it compelling and enthralling, don't bother writing it.
"I do intent the next thing I do to be game-related as much of the content here on BR.com."
Is that what YOU want to do? We all want to be entertained here by whatever battlereport possible. You don't have to put your style in a box with other people. If you want to write fiction, write fiction, just with more passion and conviction. If you want to do reports on games, then do that. If you want to write about stresses and trials going on in your life in a battlereport style, go for it. Don't be forced off of your path by other people.
And just because a person hangs out here doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't qualified to give out writing advice. Although I don't think any of us are best-selling authors...yet. |
| #74 Mostly-Harmless[153928] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
You guys like to bicker about your opinions quite a bit. Who cares? To each their own.
""I do intent the next thing I do to be game-related as much of the content here on BR.com."
Is that what YOU want to do? We all want to be entertained here by whatever battlereport possible. You don't have to put your style in a box with other people. If you want to write fiction, write fiction, just with more passion and conviction. If you want to do reports on games, then do that. If you want to write about stresses and trials going on in your life in a battlereport style, go for it. Don't be forced off of your path by other people."
No, I really would like to do a game related report. They are the reason I have come here all the time, while many of them are not all that intriguing and feel regurgatated a lot of times, some of the people here write unique enough to come back simply for them. Although they are far and few they make it worth it to come here.
Whatever happened to Cattlebruiser anyways? I've never felt unhappy after reading any of his reports.
In any case I don't allow popular opinion to sway me but I can at least own up for my mistakes. |
| #75 EMS[153932] |
| labhost-812-1360.katf.jhu.edu |
| wow, reading this has given me a new respect for the effort that raters put into their job. Giving this much time to a report that isn't even being golded shows some commitment |
| #76 mattzarella[153933] |
| 162.7.33.65.cfl.rr.com |
| non gold reports get a lot more attention that gold ones do |
| #77 snowyday[153937] |
| 24.107.157.165.charter-stl.com |
No worries maareek, I know that the overwhelmingly vast majority of the time, newcomers are given encouragement, and support etc.
However I still hold that it's an unfortunate aspect of human nature to be generally slightly bious against newcomers. For exactly the reason you said. They HAVEN'T yet earned any respect, or for that matter any sort of reputation. I'm not saying that if CB had written this report everyone would have loved it, because that's simply not true. But I imagine that if he HAD written this report (in this way however unlikely that may seem) the inherent respect most people have for him would have encouraged them to take a second look at the report, and maybe rethink their opinions. I also doubt they would have been expressed QUITE so harshly.
Anyways, I agree entirely that this report was far from gold and silver, I just think some of the original comments were a tad harsh all things considered. |
| #78 [153939] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
With regards to bias, it's difficult to say. A good report will get a good rating, no matter what, no matter the writer. Generally, I think people are more likely to give an unconventional, bizarre, overly short or otherwise abnormal work by an established rater/HOFer the benefit of the doubt, whereas it MIGHT be written off more easily if submitted by someone new.
I think.
That said, I would have still given this a 1 if WC3 wrote it :[. |
| #79 Chris[153940] |
| astound-66-234-209-235.ca.astound.net |
Since the raters were overcome with bias, they should not have rated the report.
After all, if they deem the content is offensive, they can just seal it away from our eyes, right?
But they should rate based on writing or whatever such this kind of report is rated on, not because of the content.
My 2 cents, which is worth exactly that. |
| #80 [153942] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
Raters rate primarily based on the enjoyment they receive from the report - whether that be educational, or emotional. This . . . "thing" was poorly written, insensitive and, IMO, worth exactly what it got from me.
No bias at all. |
| #81 [153943] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
btw, not rating something based on its content is absolutely ridiculous . . . can you elaborate on that please?
In addition, no, those of us who thought it was horrid could not seal this away from everyone because,
A) EE approved it,
B) JV gave a 5
:) |
| #82 Mostly-Harmless[153944] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
Bias is part of being human, no one can simply write things off in a neutral tone once they are an established part of a community. I don't care about my rating, if I did, I probably would have cried off and disappeared by now. It wasn't "sealed off" and I wasn't banned, overall I'd have to say that if either of those had occured, things could have been worse.
Now everyone, quitcher bitchin' and write something other than a regurgitated comment... or at least a new comment that feels less ¿regurgitatful? |
| #83 maareek[153951] |
| 150.176.83.30 |
mattz: Aint it the truth. I think we should start shooting for 1's instead of 10s...
Cattlebruiser still posts reports fairly regularly, he put one out not long ago. |
| #84 kane[153960] |
| shore-100-110.rh.uchicago.edu |
so, mr. i'm-too-much-of-a-moron-to-think-of-a-name-better-than-mostly-harmless, answer me now: are you or are you not saying your "battlereport" doesn't suck
becuase, buddy, it sucks |
| #85 Mostly-Harmless[153961] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
Kane, such a creative, never-before-used name.... Why is my name comming into play now? Are you telling me a name like Kane is creative? You respect Zerg~LinG but that is a highly unoriginal name. If you're going to insult someone you better have some better material than attacking someone's alias.
Are you saying your comment should garner respect and reply?
Because buddy, it doesn't. |
| #86 mattzarella[153966] |
| 162.7.33.65.cfl.rr.com |
wtf
how often do you see people named after citizen kane? CITIZEN KANE?!
sure, kain, never kane though
pick ur arguments better lolol |
| #87 wakiki[153968] |
| cable-24-158-230-168.mtv.al.charter.com |
Hey let's get a flame war going so that I can BR it.
By the way, has there ever been a flame war on a BR before? Just wondering. |
| #88 kane[153969] |
| shore-100-110.rh.uchicago.edu |
#86
dodge |
| #89 Mostly-Harmless[153970] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
| Kane was the spelling of the once popular wrestler. Citizen Kane as well... It is popular as well and also uncreative, the argument was that he chose to insult my name for no apparent reason and so I showed how uncreative his was in turn. It wasn't an argument it was more or less a fact. |
| #90 Mostly-Harmless[153971] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
| besides what the hell does spelling have to do with anything? Kain, Kain, Cain, Cane all lack creativity |
| #91 RexRox[153974] |
| cache5.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net |
#86
"Are you saying your comment should garner respect and reply?
Because buddy, it doesn't."
It apparently does because you replied to it. Also Kain & Cain are popular but I've visited over 30 forums and only here on br.com have I seen someone use the name Kane after Citizen Kane.
Also spelling has to do with intelligence and literacy. If its spelt bad then its harder to understand though sometimes spelling mistakes are funny. |
| #92 RexRox[153976] |
| cache4.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net |
Another thing.
Kane flaming you about your alias was dumb but you flaming him back about him was just idiotic. |
| #93 Mostly-Harmless[153977] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
I knew that someone would bring that up due to their utter wittiness and willingness to be the ultimate in "AHA! I Caught you!"
"It apparently does because you replied to it."
I meant in reguards to his inquery, not to his post altogether.
Also I like your follow-up "Ohh what he did was dumb but what you did was idiotic, why would you try to make a point? Pure idiocy." Give me a break chump, trying to pin-point and over-analyze everything makes you all the more moronic. |
| #94 maareek[153978] |
| mblt-ac058.gtcom.net |
| wakiki: Depends on whether you count the Mark4 vs NTT report as a flame war. |
| #95 kane[153982] |
| shore-100-110.rh.uchicago.edu |
| every post thus far is a dodge |
| #96 Tripe[153983] |
| ca-glendora-cuda1-c8a-a-94.arcdca.adelphia.net |
| Mostly Harmless is a really cool name(I'm a sucker for Douglas Adams) but the rest of it... you know, wasn't too good. |
| #97 mattzarella[153989] |
| 162.7.33.65.cfl.rr.com |
CITIZEN KANE
is there really an abundance of people named after CITIZEN KANE? it's not unoriginal, you twit.. and i suggest counting your losses now before everyone hates you and not just him
|
| #98 maareek[153993] |
| 150.176.83.144 |
| This comment section has it all, a flame war, arguments about names and mattz calling somebody a pregnant goldfish...who could ask for anything more? |
| #99 [153996] |
| d141-165-127.home.cgocable.net |
Actually, Harmless isn't doing too bad if this is a flame war. If Kane's post garnered respect my being responded to, then this BR garners a whole hell of a lot of respect.
It is my sincere hope that this comment will be the last for this report, but I'm sure that's a pipe dream. |
| #100 [153998] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
| 100 comments, bravo. Maybe I could learn something here. |
| #101 [153999] |
| 67.176.104.160 |
| Oh, and that was purely to irk you dag. |
| #102 Some_God[154005] |
| ool-18b8c5a0.dyn.optonline.net |
| Bitches! I got last! |
| #103 snowyday[154010] |
| 24.107.146.150.charter-stl.com |
| You wish. Man, that flame war sucked. We never even got to talking about the existence of God, or why Ralph Nader should be President. |
| #104 haike[154019] |
| palo8.pacific.net.sg |
I never read finish all the comments. but im adding one of my own.
this piece of work is unrealistic and tasteless. I could say that most of us wouldnt like this kind of work to be shown here as it is like quite a few people said, in bad taste.
Maybe it is INDEED our opinion, but majority of us dont like that article. Shouldnt u respect the opinion of the majority?
im sorry i read that article...all of us know abt the dark side of life all too well, theres no need to do a report on the school affair. |
| #105 Chris[154025] |
| astound-66-234-209-235.ca.astound.net |
Regarding Dagomar's comment of "btw, not rating something based on its content is absolutely ridiculous . . . can you elaborate on that please?"....
I misspoke like I do so often. It seems ridiculous now that I think about it. |
| #106 TwistedNecro[154039] |
| lsanca1-ar54-4-3-196-028.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net |
| What is this bious?? It's _bias_ people! =) |
| #107 Desert Demon[154046] |
| user-0ce2kie.cable.mindspring.com |
| Bilous bias. |
| #108 snowyday[154051] |
| 24.107.146.150.charter-stl.com |
| Take your bious opinions about the spelling of bias elsewhere. If you keep it up, I'll sue for millions of dollars for discrimination. With the right lawyer, I'll win. The legal system is so much fun to play with! XD |
| #109 Fangrim[154080] |
| adsl-70-240-227-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net |
First of all, I must say that this comment section is quite interesting to read. I don't normally read the comments but paragraphs so long clued me in on something good.
This is pretty much an overview of what has already been said, with a couple of other thoughts thrown in.
Many here have said something to the effect of calling this report "tasteless, sick, wrong." However, let me point to other pieces referring to tragedies that were released to the public. Were not documentaries and stories told of the horrific happenings in the Nazi concentration camps during World War Two? I myself can recall an episode of a reality tv show in which an aged woman told teenagers of her life at a concentration camp during the war, how she told of her father and brother immediately sent to the gas chambers, and her forced labor until she was finally rescued after years of hardship. Although this episode was of the series Seventh Heaven (known for that sort of 'serious' matter), it shows that pieces have been released with this 'sickening' work anyway, regardless of its possible 'tastelessness'.
But then one can say that the recentness of this tragic event is the sickening part. An arguement would be this: would you feel sick if you were told that the Roman legions tore through the lands of a 'nuetral' country, slaughtering men, women AND children, that the emperor ORDERED that they be slowly survivors be slowly tortured, burned, mutilated? Would that make you feel sick? Probably not. Such a thing so far in the past, with no imagery from the media or other such things, would not make much of an impact on you.(By the way, that was completely fictional, although I wouldn't be suprised if that really happened.) Perhaps this piece should not have been released due to the event's recentness.
As others have said, it could also be the 'bad writing'. The simple comments of the deaths and such, with apparently no feelings of empathy from the writer, no 'message' coming from him, might be the cause of the tastelessness within the writing. Perhaps if this had been better written, with thoughts taken into account by a poster above about the quality of writing, it would have been recieved better.
I have to doubt that the 'beat up the new guy' thing had anything to do with it. Yes, it is very easy to join in and beat up of the new kid, especially with all the above there as well, but the other points take precendent over it.
My personal feeling about this...
It was incorrect to post this. The serious subject added to the poor take to the subject through the writing created a very tasteless and sickening piece of work. At some parts I was horrified at the picture it made in my mind. This work could have been turned into something very emotionally stirring, but instead, the writer's 'whim' of writing about this serious topic has caused bad feelings among many. Yes, the writer has appoligized, saying that he had no meant to hurt anyone, simply wanted to write about something, and that the subject 'had hit him', but the point is this should never have been posted in the first place. The writer not even wanting to give a message to the audience, not wanting to impart anything to his readers, adds even more the disgust one feels after reading it. The piece reminds one of the event, but there is no 'comfort' after it, nothing for the reader to think about. If the writer had but put a meaning into the work, I am sure the audience would have taken to it differently. Yes, the work would still have been considered disgusting and tasteless by some, but the message, the message imparted by the writer would have an effect on readers. It is shameful that such a serious subject would be so lightly written about, 'on a whim', as the writer himself said. I realize that this sounds very harsh, but that is what I feel. I just wish the writer had taken time to think about what his work was telling the reader, even if it is his first report.
This has already gone WAY too long than I expected, so I'll stop now. |
| #110 Mostly-Harmless[154140] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
Sorry I've been away for awhile... looks like I gots some reading to catch up to but I'm a bit tired so I'll hit it tomorrow. I read a few "every post is a dodge thus far" and "watch out before everyone hates you" yadee yadee... well to make a short response to those quickly...
A dodge to you but when someone thinks insulting a name is witty then I find myself questioning whether or not they can comprehend explanations since their attention span seems to bend and shift to things other than the substance of the original subject matter
Kain, Kane, my apologies for not caring about the origin of a name on the internet, some people mispell things unintentionally how am I to know he did not know which of the kanes//kains to pick? Perhaps the origin is of citizen Kane which in any case would show it lacks originality to begin with.
And if people hate me so be it but I when I release something else here and I know you'll read it out of curiosity of what I had to say (after this fiasco) I am assuming that there will be no bias towards me as mentioned above. This site carries no bias and I believe it, I'll keep my faith and see come the unveiling of something new.
Anyways I will read more later, please though if you want to argue with me about stupid things unrelated to the matter of the content then you can email me at stiff_guy_711@yahoo.com but I don't check it that often since I use a gmail account as my main. Thanks. |
| #111 Nafarias[154195] |
| 216.169.204.86 |
| Personally, I've not really understood the rather over-harsh criticism of the text. Granted it isn't going to win any literary awards, but it had a sort of workman (if melodramatic) tone. It wasn't a total hack piece, nor was it the creme de la creme. But to hammer it as 'poor' is hyperbole. Needs improvement? Sure - but I've seen lots worse published. |
| #112 Mostly-Harmless[154200] |
| h119.9.40.162.ip.alltel.net |
Well not much to really read so...
Nafarias: Thanks but I can respect an opinion as long as that opinion isn't based on insult because otherwise what reason should I have to respond to something peacably then? For that reason I accept MOST of the judges decisions and that they stand by them. I'd rather have someone stand by their opinion than change their mind because of popular opinion, which is why I won't just up and leave.
Well, 112 (113 with this one) comments isn't too bad, although it bares no TRUE meaning and is no competition, it is still somewhat interesting that something I HONESTLY did not view as this horrible, evil, uncouth piece would generate this kind of attention, good or bad. |
| #113 Sabotage[154429] |
| pool-68-160-213-125.ny325.east.verizon.net |
| lol wtf/ |
| #114 wakiki[155058] |
| cable-68-113-117-177.mtv.al.charter.com |
Heh, actually, I would say that it WAS a total hack piece ;P
Oh well, good luck on your next one M-H.
One small thing that I Meant to put in my original criticism, but forgot at the time:
This was an "all-or-nothing" piece. Basically, the subject matter means that it should either get a 1 or a 10. If it was an amazingl, inspiration, sad piece then it would get a 10. If it were anything, ANYTHING less than extremely good, it would be a 1, due to the controversial subject. Obviously this was, unfortunately, the latter :( If I were to rate the writing on this, I would give it a 2 or 3. But since it wasn't a 10, it drops down to a 1, since the subject matter wasn't something I enjoyed reading about.
On another note, I seriously hope that it's not "peice" instead of "piece." If it's "peice" then I mispelled it every time ;) |
| #115 Mostly-Harmless[158666] |
| h146.41.140.67.ip.alltel.net |
| What are you talking about with "peice" and "piece?" |
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